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| The Lahker Dynasty: picking the wrong battles for 65+ million years. |
Forces of the Lahkers, mid-2016
3x Overlords, 3x Lords, 2x Crypteks
40x Warriors, 10x Immortals, 3x Tomb Blades
10x Wraiths, 12x Scarab bases, 2x Spyders
5x Lychguard, 5x Praetorians, 5x magnetized Lychguard/Praetorians, 10x Deathmarks
1x Stalker, 1x Ghost Ark, 1x Doom Scythe/Night Scythe
A Short History of Immortal Hubris
In those very first, very special days of playing Necrons, all I knew was to rapid fire everything, always buy warscythes, and never ever get anyone other than the Overlords into melee. This went as planned slightly less than 25% of the time. I had fun anyways; I was just starting, so it was crazy goofy fun at the time.
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| This is as serious as 40k ever needs to be. |
Gradually I switched over to running MSU-style lists, with units with specific purposes in mind. There were the Warriors blobs, the backfield 5-man squads with Eldritch-lance-toting Crypteks (how I miss those), my Overlord would run around with his 10 Immortals and use them as meat shields while he chopped things up, and my Wraiths were the linemen of my army, always fielding the nastiest hostile melee unit, or bullying weaker infantry squads. I still had a poor grasp of tactics, but I had fun and didn't mind the losses too much.
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| The coming of 7E, also known as "offensive Relentless charges everywhere, no matter what". |
Then Codex: Necrons 7th Edition came along, and I discovered I had accidentally collected the near-perfect Decurion detachment. My tactical development slowed to a crawl while I marveled at sending waves of Warriors across the board, rapid-firing and charging as they went. Tactics schamctics, all I needed was all gauss all day. Yet even with the Decurion, I still managed to lose constantly. (I don't think I've ever hit the 1:1 win/loss ration I have casually aimed for.)
After about a year of this nonsense, I realized I was still crap. Ever since then, I've been actively considering and predicting the tactics and moves of my army and the enemy army. Thinking about positioning, about the consequences of making one move or another, paying attention to the actual models on the actual board. It hasn't paid magical dividends, but it is helping a little.
Use of the Legions
I usually play infantry-heavy with the Lahkers, by necessity of most of my army being infantry. I have the models to play a mechanized/mobile list (Night Scythe, Ghost Ark, Veil of Darkness), a very mobile and shooty list (Destroyer Cult), and, of course, the undying Decurion with a maxed-out Royal Court and Reclamation Legion.
Standard practice is to form a gunline of 2-4 infantry squads, put the vehicles (Stalker, Ghost Ark, Annihilation Barge) immediately behind the line, and march forward, aiming to be at midfield around Turn 3 or 4, and having rapid-fired most of the opposing army off the table. Having Wraiths in a Canoptek Harvest front and center to tackle the enemy melee/deathstar/whatever is a HUGE help.
When I want a more mobile force I go with the Ghost Ark and Night Scythe and put my HQ in a Catacomb Command Barge. Season to taste with Praetorians and Destroyers.
Terrain
You mean the decorative stuff that keeps blocking my LOS? Necrons can hack it without terrain, but that isn't to say it's not useful. Area terrain is useful for the Warriors and Destroyers, who need insurance against being charged, and can also make use of the cover save. Destroyers especially need cover, being the expensive min-maxed ranged units they are. My Stalker needs LOS-blocking terrain since it's a valuable unit and target priority for the enemy.
This is an area that I really can improve. I haven't used terrain enough; I should be paying attention to, say, how I can position to force enemies to assault through difficult terrain. Things like that. I should think about that more, when I play.
The Enemy
This is my biggest weakness, besides not learning from my own mistakes. I haven't paid much attention to the varied tactics and abilities of the other armies of 40k. Previously, it seemed like too much extra effort to imagine myself in the opponent's place, to imagine where I would put my units if I were Dark Eldar or Daemons or Tau. (Space Marines are the one exception. I've played Ike for so long even I've picked up on "bubble-wrap your Stalker or get a multi-melta to the rear arc")
After about a year of this nonsense, I realized I was still crap. Ever since then, I've been actively considering and predicting the tactics and moves of my army and the enemy army. Thinking about positioning, about the consequences of making one move or another, paying attention to the actual models on the actual board. It hasn't paid magical dividends, but it is helping a little.
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| Standard deployment in action. |
I usually play infantry-heavy with the Lahkers, by necessity of most of my army being infantry. I have the models to play a mechanized/mobile list (Night Scythe, Ghost Ark, Veil of Darkness), a very mobile and shooty list (Destroyer Cult), and, of course, the undying Decurion with a maxed-out Royal Court and Reclamation Legion.
Standard practice is to form a gunline of 2-4 infantry squads, put the vehicles (Stalker, Ghost Ark, Annihilation Barge) immediately behind the line, and march forward, aiming to be at midfield around Turn 3 or 4, and having rapid-fired most of the opposing army off the table. Having Wraiths in a Canoptek Harvest front and center to tackle the enemy melee/deathstar/whatever is a HUGE help.
When I want a more mobile force I go with the Ghost Ark and Night Scythe and put my HQ in a Catacomb Command Barge. Season to taste with Praetorians and Destroyers.
Terrain
You mean the decorative stuff that keeps blocking my LOS? Necrons can hack it without terrain, but that isn't to say it's not useful. Area terrain is useful for the Warriors and Destroyers, who need insurance against being charged, and can also make use of the cover save. Destroyers especially need cover, being the expensive min-maxed ranged units they are. My Stalker needs LOS-blocking terrain since it's a valuable unit and target priority for the enemy.
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| Could I have used this building to bubble-wrap the Rhino and stop the Chaos Lord from getting out? Of course. Did I? NOOOOOPE. |
The Enemy
This is my biggest weakness, besides not learning from my own mistakes. I haven't paid much attention to the varied tactics and abilities of the other armies of 40k. Previously, it seemed like too much extra effort to imagine myself in the opponent's place, to imagine where I would put my units if I were Dark Eldar or Daemons or Tau. (Space Marines are the one exception. I've played Ike for so long even I've picked up on "bubble-wrap your Stalker or get a multi-melta to the rear arc")
The above is one of the few times I did bother thinking about the enemy (Nathaniel's Dark Eldar, a deep-strike-heavy list) and how they would deploy. The Wraiths I put in the center so they could either go forward and push back enemy melee, or fall back and clear my backline if Nathaniel dropped his guys behind me. He did drop dudes in my backline, and I was able to swing the Wraiths around, engage them, and lock them down long enough to win the game.
My Attitude
I like to think I'm a good sport. Truth be told, it's way easier losing to my friends than to strangers at an event. I don't mind losing as much if it's a close game. Close games I like; one-sided landslides I don't like so much, even if I'm winning the landslide.
When I started Warhammer, I named the Lahkers so because I wanted to have fun with 40k, to hang out with other people and enjoy the game and the hobby. There was a guy at the old FLGS I attended who fielded Blood Angels in crazy, silly lists which were fun just to watch. We had some crazy games there, with dropping Drop Pods on Drop Pods, challenges atop Rhinos, and on and on.
The Future
I shall stop whining, observe the battlefield, think about the units, and facetank it like a real Overlord.
Okay, the last one is there because Necron superiority, but still. Dare to have fun.
One thing all the weak points you describe here (terrain, the enemy) have in common is that they all revolve around a failure to adapt to evolving circumstances during the game itself. The lists you bring are solid as far as I can tell (save perhaps for a lack of redundancy for particular support units) and you've learned to anticipate general possibilities such as deepstrikers or scout blitzes, but things fall apart once the game throws something at you that you didn't expect. Sometimes this is circumstantial (thing blew up when you had a rash of bad saves, opponent had some scary thing get killed and you get cocky because you think you're in the clear) and other times its because you figured that some unit or another could handle itself fine because you didn't thing to ask what that one thing over there could do (you've lost your royal guard TWICE IN A ROW because you assumed that 3++ and RP could handle *anything* but never considered that invul saves didn't matter against massed rapid fire boltguns/hormagaunt shooting. On the second occasion they would have been just the thing to handle that carnifex that swung the game turn 4 with its AP2 MC attacks, but those 3++ save had been drowned in failed saves over a turn before they could have made a difference). The most common version of this is you getting your overlord gibbed by sending him to handle situations he just isn't meant to handle.
ReplyDeleteSomething I've seen you do with varying frequency over the years is having the bulk of your army move up for the first turn or two but only realize it was a terrible idea once your stuck either committing to a terrible plan or making costly disengagements form situations you never should have been in in the first place. Early on this was usually your warrior blobs giving up favorable terrain and getting you punched by pretty much anything, now its evolved to a lolled up royal court eating a turn or two of fire and failing to both make their points back and making a noticeable contribution in keeping the rest of the army alive.
I know overlords aren't generally support HQs, but treating them like they have decent challenge builds is a recipe for disaster. A bare bones chaos lord with a power weapon doesn't even break 100 points and still has a decent chance of coming out on top against a tooled up overlord, anything actually BUILT for challenges will demolish him and a good chunk of his bodyguard for 2/3 the overall cost. That said he and the tooled up royal guard you love so much DO have a place on the battlefield, but its not in going in to kill deathstars on their own. Rather its in containing big killy things that would otherwise be running amok in your gunline. The power weapons help, but low initiative, attacks, assault USRs and most critically mobility means they simply don't have the output or threat range to take the fight to the enemy. What they DO have is enough attacks to whittle down the opposition and troops that are almost definitely resilient enough to hold out a turn or two for them to get there. They might still come a bit short of earning back their points for stuff they kill on their own, but the real victory is that you didn't get half your army eaten by bikestars/death co/a daemon prince. Leaving your Immortals and Warriors free to make those armor/RP saves against bolter fire like champs.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of warriors/immortals, I'm not sure MSU is the way to go with them in particular. Unlike tactical squads they don't have access to (or any particular need for) special/heavy weapons. Immortals I can see keeping in units of 5, but the only reason I see to run warriors ans anything other then the 20 model maximum is to put them in a ghost ark, and even then their acting more as a crew/payload for the ghost ark then their footslogging comrades. 20 model units of warriors have the double advantage of having a good chance of wiping nearly anything they shoot at and forcing the enemy to chew through 20 wounds wrapped in 4+ armor and RP rolls in order to get his KP/objective cleared. They will never be as versatile as 5 man tacs with a special weapon+vet sarge, but they don't need to be because the odds of that 5 man marine squad surviving 20 gauss shots at BS 4 are slim, with rapid fire making those odds laughable.
I SWEAR I THOUGH I WAS ONLY GONNA SAY ONE OR TWO THINGS BUT THEN THIS JUST HAPPENED.
While I think your view of your attitude is great I whole heatedly support it, keep in mind that landslides happen and it's not up to one side to prevent it. Mostly it comes down to dice rolls.
ReplyDeleteBut I do have some problems with your view on aspects of the game. Primarily cover, you say that "Necrons can hack it without terrain..." Which is 100% true. Necrons have no need of cover, in fact they wish to move through it as fast as possible to keep advancing on their foes. (that's why the decurion gives Move Though Cover). Necron's have almost all the saves they need. They are THE tankiest army in the game, and if their armor save is ignored those big guns aren't shooting at your tanks. Cover is only useful if your only save would be ignored. As the resident xeno player where cover is the only save we get, your statements of why cover is good is all wrong. Cover should be used to provide a save for models that don't have one. (you do though ALWAYS!)
I will counter Ike in saying that your HQ can be kitted to kill everything, but then it must be allowed to kill everything instead of sit in the middle of the board instead of kill everything. If he is kitted your normal way, his situation should be to charge forward and kill anything in his path. Not shield for those behind him.
I'm going to go from your My Attitude "There was a guy at the old FLGS I attended who fielded Blood Angels in crazy, silly lists which were fun just to watch." This is a great time in 40k where armies are getting the ability to be plaid even more like they act in the fluf. How do the Necrons win? What do they do in all the stories? They march forward, killing all in their path not faltering for anything. battle cannons firing away they get hit, but they reanimate and keep walking forward. Fluf is the best way to play armies now a days. This is why Ike want's tanks for his Iron hands/warriors. And I want stealth and deployment stuff for my Raven Guard, and other stuff like that. So create lists that are fun, and try to play your army like your army.
Keep smiling and play on!
Ike: Don't worry, I appreciate your insight. Your textwall is like granola: a little heavy on the stomach at first, but it contains many enriching qualities within.
ReplyDeleteNathaniel: Warriors and especially Destroyers can still make use of cover saves. Especially those 40-point Destroyer models. It's nice to have another save for 4+ armor Warriors; it's nearly mandatory to make sure my min-maxed expensive Destroyers have another save to mitigate wounds.
I can use terrain to shape the battle how I want it to go. Area terrain is a potential buffer against hostile assault (-2 to charge distance, Init 1). Solid cover keeps my Stalker from getting blown away turn 1. Necrons don't usually use or sit in terrain like other armies, but they can still make use of terrain in other ways.
Thank you for your kind comment on the HQ units. Considering their Init 2 and 2/3 attacks, Necron HQs are built for bullying less capable enemy characters, or (as Ike said) locking down enemy deathstars. I do like to try and get legendary kills with them, but more often than not, it fails spectacularly. It'll all be worth it when I do get that one awesome challenge kill, though.
You're missing the point about cover saves Gabe. Your warriors already get another 4+ save and its called Reanimation Protocols. Guardsmen, Tau and Eldar might be able to get 4+ cover saves too, but they can't carry them with them the way you can with RP. They all have much better reach then you do however, so by squatting in cover you're denying yourself your greatest advantages and placing yourself in a position of weakness. That's not shaping the battle how you want it to go, that's allowing the enemy the convenience of protection and maneuverability in exchange for an extremely marginal benefit.
DeleteYou aren't Eldar, you aren't Tau, you aren't even Space Marines, you don't have anything of note that ignores cover or guarantees 2+ cover saves. Many armies get frag grenades standard and most dedicated assault units (vanguard vets) or even entire armies (Orks) are able to either ignore difficult terrain on the charge or reroll at least part of their charge distance, sometimes both. Nether of these terrain penalties help with your warriors having few attacks and limited melee weapons either, and those are the true root of necron cc troubles. Your assertion that a pair of minor penalties that you will almost never get when it matters constitutes a reliable defense boarders on delusional.
Area terrain does much, much more for each and every one of your enemies then it ever will for you. It is not your friend, it is not an asset, it is an obstacle to your ability to sweep away anything that you don't like with a hail of gauss.
See, the big thing units like Dreadnoughts and battlesuit hate having to deal with vs necrons is your abundance of gauss. A group of 10 warriors will, statistically, take of at least one hull point at range and have good odds of wreaking it with one round of rapid fire. These warriors will almost always cost fewer points then whatever it is they killed and some of their favorite support units, such as Stalkers and Monoliths(which are amazing at everything you want to get out of how you style of necron lists and I have no idea how your Legolith goes untouched for months at a time), are perfectly capable of thinning out hordes on their own.
And you, for some reason, seem to think that they should be squatting in the woods like common guardsmen. Then you grouse about losing eldritch lance on generic crypteks when they mostly just add a target for snipers as opposed to something useful, like a 5+ invul save you can use to care even less about cover saves then you should have to start with.
(I do however think that Serizas is the right choice for a non-lord HQ however, and I look forward to seeing more of him in your upcoming lists.)
What you should be concerning yourself about using properly is BLoS terrain. Which can either force the enemy to enter the dreaded gauss range of your warriors or giving your Destroyers something to jump pack move behind, eliminating the need for a cover save entirely.
Hmm. I feel a little bugged that I apparently know less about my army than my friend. But that means I know I have a problem, and it can be fixed.
DeleteAlso, how dare you diss eldritch lances! A 36" S8 AP2 shot in every infantry squad? Yes, please! That is my particular pet peeve, and I will grouse about losing the awesome 5th ed. Cryptek wargear until the sun burns out.
The need for a Cryptek in the squad eliminates their ability to fit in a ghost ark and an extra 12" of range on a single model pales in comparison to getting those other 10+ models into gauss/rapid fire range. A 5++ across the ENTIRE unit outclasses a single S8 shot at BS4, especially when the Gauss Awesomeness detailed previously should make it irreverent.
DeleteSpecial Weapons work on Space Marines because the replace the weapon of an existing model without any additional overhead and still fit tidily into their usual transports. Unlike necrons, they actually need those special/heavy weapons to deal with things their bolters can't. It is also worth noting that those points spent on a single model's special weapon are wasted if the model is targeted by snipers or is the center of a barrage blast. a warrior blob does not have this weakness and the only way to reduce their firepower is to focus them down enough to reduce their Gaussomness which, as you know, is a huge pain for the guy trying not to get gaussed. Necron's need help with several things, but wreaking tanks at mid range is not one of them.
It still works great on Serizas because it lets him contribute to the fight from a comfortable distance while filling your HQ slot and buffing your warrior lines. I've run my usual HQ as a MoTF/Techmarine with a conversion beamer for years for similar reasons.